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Hot and Monogamous, just as God intended

I do a lot of research about sexuality and theology, those are the two biggest areas of research in my life.  It’s no surprise, then, that I eventually started a blog exploring the intersection of these two interests.  But my research is not limited to the Bible and personal experience.  Before you get scared, let me explain:

I read a lot of books about theology, I also read blogs, and talk to many differing people.  I talk to Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Agnostics, and people of many other faiths.  I also discuss what I believe with as many people from other denominations as I can find, because I’m not arrogant enough to think that my denomination, or even Christianity, has it 100% figured out.  Don’t get me wrong, I believe Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life, but I respect the Islamic focus on prayer and fasting, the Buddhist focus on peace, Mormon’s devotion to the family and the priesthood, the United church’s focus on accepting everyone, and many many others.

So, what does this have to do with sex within marriage?  I also do a lot of research outside of the Christian sphere in regards to sexuality.  I read books from humanist authors who push evolution when discussing sex.  I listen to Podcasts from non-christian speakers who make fun of Christian family ideals.  I read blogs from ex-Christians who think we’re all nuts for thinking there is a God.  Why?  Because the fact is, there are not many Christians doing ground-breaking work in the sphere of sexuality.  So, I listen, I read, I discuss and argue, and I distill it all down, cross reference with the Bible and what I believe and then, if there is something to be gained from it and it doesn’t contradict the Bible, I share it.  This is not the impetus of many of my posts, or even the bulk of my content in a single post, but I learn here and there, little tips, little bits of information, research that is being done and such that help to strengthen the Christian ideal of marriage as God intended.  A prime example of information I’ve shared is the post Is Sex A Need Or A Want?

So, lately I’ve been hearing the strangest phrase pop up all over the place: “Christian Porn”.  Usually the context is something like “we need to start making Christian Porn so they [Christians] will get off our case about our [secular] porn.”  Generally, the co-host, audience, guest, whatever thinks this is a great idea.  I’m usually sitting in my car, in traffic, staring at the radio thinking, or yelling, “Christian Porn can’t exist!  It’s an oxymoron!” I mean, the whole idea is ridiculous isn’t it?  They don’t understand the idea of keeping yourself for your spouse, of not sharing your sexuality with anyone but your spouse, of keeping your mind purely for your mate.  I realized the entire concept is so foreign to them.  It has to be completely alien, or none of these people would even suggest something like producing Christian Porn for general consumption.  Most thought it was as easy as videotaping a married couple have sex in the missionary position, and that would qualify.  Mind-boggling.

So, where am I going with this?

Well, something happened to change my mind a bit.  No, still not thinking what they are, but I did have a bit of a paradigm shift.

I was gone for the first 12 days of this month on a mission trip.  Now, in the past, during our “barren winter” season of our marriage, 12 days without sex wouldn’t have phased me.  At this point, it’s torture.  Not just the lack of sex, but not seeing my wife, not talking to her (we managed to a couple of times, but not like when I’m home), it all compounds together.  In fact, I think I have a new rule: no long trips without my wife again, it’s just too hard.

Anyways, before we left, my wife did something that absolutely blew my mind:  She suggested I take some nude photos to “remember her by”.  I was stunned, but in a good way.  We’ve never done anything like this before.  Now, before I continue, disclaimer:  Any time you take naked pictures or do anything digitally that you don’t want someone else to know about (by that I mean you’d be embarrassed if they found out.  If you’d be ashamed, you probably shouldn’t be doing it), make sure you take the necessary precautions.  So, I took 4 pictures that were naked, but not explicit.  Note: the purpose of these was not masturbatory aids.  They were to be able “tide me over” until I see her again.  I have to say, it helped a lot.

My second last night I managed to get WiFi access, but no privacy (no one could read what I was writing, but there were other people in the room), and we were chatting with a lot of “I miss you”, “I can’t wait to feel you again” sort of talk, but nothing  explicit.  Nevertheless, it definitely got me worked up, and so, after we said our good nights, I couldn’t sleep.  So, I decided to try my hand at writing erotica, for my wife.  Now, this was outside of my comfort zone, but I thought about it, and decided it wasn’t against one of my hard boundaries, or my wife’s (as far I knew) and pushing our soft boundaries (our comfort zone) is how we grow.  In 2 days, I wrote 3 parts (a page or two a part) and sent them to my wife.  She got the last one after I was home already.

Now, I don’t know if it was the stories, or the separation, but man, that was good sex.  We talked about them and we agreed it was highly erotic (for me to write and her to read and, more importantly, both to share) and we should do it again.  I’ll probably write more about this in the future, there’s just too much to tackle in a single post.

So, this brought me back to: What is Christian Porn?  I couldn’t find a definition anywhere (surprise surprise), so I’m going to make one up. Here we go:

Christian Porn: Media created by a marital unit, involving no one but the members of said marital unit (in the creation and content), for the expressed consumption by the same marital unit.

- Jay Dee, www.SexWithinMarriage.com

I hope that’s both restrictive and free enough.  Feel free to quote me.

What about you, have you tried something like this in your marriage?  If not, are you open to the idea, or not? Anonymous comments welcome as well.

45 Responses to What is Christian Porn?

  • Yes, I love this! My husband and I do this with each other some times. Each time we do, it is a deep bonding experience. <3

  • Thanks Lisa, was starting to think we were alone here! No comments or anything until now, either on the blog, twitter, Facebook, nothing.

  • Interesting :)

  • Lori and I have been accused of doing “Christian Porn” eve since we started TMB 15 years ago.

    There are some sites out there which do “Christian Erotica”. The stories are all within acceptable biblical limits, but they are explicit. I have no problem with a husband and wife writing such things for each other (as you did) but I am concerned about then sharing those stories with others.
    Paul H. Byerly recently posted..Keep asking and you might get lucky?My Profile

    • Yeah, I’ve been told that TMB is porn before too, but generally they have made that assumption on a 2-5 second look, and preferred keep their marriage in a broken state and not discuss it.

      I’ve also seen those sites that you mention. Yeah, I’m not sure where I sit on those. There are some that you pay and they will write a custom story for you, and that just seems dead wrong to me. Others that are more computer generated and you “fill in the blank” with you details, I’m not sure. I think I’d err on the side of caution and just write your own. Save you some money generally as well.

      And yeah, I’d never share the stories I wrote. It is one thing to discuss what you do in the marriage bed in generalities, and quite another to let loose the nuisances of the situation and specifics of your fantasies with each other. I see no good coming from that, or at least much more harm than good.

      Thanks for weighing in Paul.
      Jay Dee recently posted..What is Christian Porn?My Profile

  • I like that definition, we’ve lived by it. I have some stunning photos of my wife, some of them professional taken (female photographer) and I’ve written her some very hot and erotic stories. By us, for us. She is my centerfold.

  • I just read this article last night and I’ve been thinking about it. I truly get where you’re coming from with this, however I have a problem with the phrase “Christian porn.” The word pornography is from the greek words porneia and grapho. Grapho means writing or pictures (we get graphics and graffiti from this word) and porneia means “sexual immorality.” So by definition there can be no such thing as Christian porn or married porn because porn means sexual immorality. There is nothing immoral about sex within a marriage, Christian or not, so by definition there cannot be Christian porn. That would be like saying, “Christian sexual immorality.” No such thing. Now you might change it to Christian eroticism for that comes from the Greek word eros which is more of a sexual love and longing for someone. And I certainly hope every marriage and especially every Christian marriage has erotic feelings for one another! if not, get counseling for that immediately!

    But aside from that, I wouldn’t see a problem with doing these things, per se, just as long as you remember that sex is about relationship, not simply getting a thrill or having an orgasm. No picture or story can replace being with my wife. But as long as that foundation is there and as long as the couple doesn’t become dependent on it where they couldn’t be physically intimate until a story had been read, then I could see how that would be a fun and creative way to connect while apart. But for that matter, don’t wait until you are gone on a 12 day trip. Just a regular 8 hour workday is still being away from each other all day. It would certainly be nice to receive a suggestive email/text from you spouse to build anticipation for later that night. And I think that’s at the heart of this: building anticipation. That’s what you need to focus on building throughout every day whether a long trip is involved or not. The anticipation is what builds to an exciting finish, i.e., a hot time when you do get back together again.

    • This is very well said. I agree 100%. My mom (ordained minister & reverend) and I have discussed this topic to extent. We are tired of seeing Christians embrace worldly terms, concepts, and acts in the efforts to try to use them for good. We both agree. The fact of the matter is, God made sex beautiful and perfect in the confines of the marriage bed. It speaks for itself. We needn’t use or take any of the worlds words or ideas when God can give us fresh words, fresh ideas, and fresh experiences in our marriages and ESPECIALLY in our marriage beds. Great post and very interesting article Jay Dee! :)

      • Thanks, glad you liked the post.

        For a rebuttal though:

        Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
        -Corinthians 9:19-23

        Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.
        -Acts 17:22-23

        You may have to take it up with Paul, this trend of using things of the world to explain God’s stance…
        Jay Dee recently posted..How does porn use harm a marriage?My Profile

  • That’s a very good point Michael. I honestly wasn’t thinking about the root words, more trying to point out the ridiculousness of the idea of mass producing “Christian Porn”. I think in our modern English context, the term pornography has changed from the Greek root of “porneia” though. Wikipedia defines it as “the explicit portrayal of sexual subject matter”. So, utilizing that sort of definition, I think the title/term still fits. Plus, it’s funny to see how many people search for “Christian Porn” (looking for some kind of loophole) and end up reading my post.

    I very much appreciate the input though, thank you for the new perspective!

  • Thank you for writing about this. I so wish my wife would agree to posing for some nude pictures, just for my enjoyment alone, but given my history of porn addiction, I feel I cannot ask her without upsetting her. Perhaps you could address whether this is a good idea for christian men (or women) who struggle with porn or sex addiction. I kind of look at it as a way to flush all the images of nude women who are not my wife out of my mind by filling it with images of my wife in the nude.

    • Now, keep in mind that my wife only agreed to this after 8 years of marriage, then 3 years of trying to fix our sex life (so, 11 years married total), and the special circumstance of me leaving the continent for 2 weeks. If I wasn’t leaving, I doubt it would have happened so soon. Be patient. This isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon.

      I too have a long struggle with porn addiction. I’m finally free (if one is ever free of an addiction), though ever on guard. I completely understand wanting to rid your mind of the images stored after years of porn. For me, pictures of my wife help a lot. The naked woman in front of you will always be a draw, so the more often your wife is the one in front of you, I think the more bonded you will be to your wife. Our society bombards us with nudity and women all day every day, I see it as a way to counter-act that.

      I can understand, though, the idea that your wife might not understand our perspective though. The fact is, that men are typically visual creatures. We’re going to be turned on by something visually, more likely than not, why not our spouses? They just don’t want to have the feeling that all we want is a naked body. We have to get the (real) idea across that we love them for more than their naked parts. We love their minds, their spirits and every part of them.

      I’m going to ask my wife what she thinks as well and get back to you. Perhaps some other women can post their perspective on this.

    • Ok, I talked to my wife, let me see if I can translate from female to male.

      Basically our idea is wanting to focus on our wife, however, what they see is that we want our wife to be a porn star, which is associated with dirty, evil, nasty sort of stuff. So, basically they have the opposite exchange than we do. We want to shift focus, they think we want to put your wife in the place of porn (same focus).

      My wife said it took her a long time to change her mindset and its not completely changed yet. Communication is the key to speeding that up. Hopefully some other women can answer and either confirm or give another perspective.

      Hope that helps.

    • We are forgetting one thing here. One very important key ingredient. Replacing images of naked women with more images (even if they are your wife) is not the key to getting them out of your head forever. That is still doing it in your own strength and not addressing the issue. The real way to get those out of your head and continue to walk in victory over our PAST addictions is through and by the finished work of Jesus. He is the author of redemption and he is the only one who can completely heal what one once broken. And we know that when he restores something, it is ALWAYS better than it was before. Give it to God. Let the picture of Him that his word provides be your main [METAPHORICAL] stimulation. Then, He will bless you and your wife with healthy stimulation and relationship practices in the marriage bed with no need for concern over past mistakes because they are just that, in the past. God Bless you friend :)

      • I’m confused by the phrase “finished work of Jesus”…His work is not yet finished, there is much yet to be done.

        • “It is finished.” The shortest sentence in the bible spoken by Jesus himself.

          Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

          This is the finished work of Jesus. He came to set us free and redeem us from the darkness.

          Also read John 17:4

          Not sure what your mean by “His work is not yet finished”

          • Well, he seems to be quite busy, according to the Bible:
            He’s our High Priest (Hebrews 3:1-2, 4:14-15), which was a fairly busy job. As such, he’s making intercession (Hebrews 7:25), offering gifts (Hebrews 8:1-3), and he mediates between God and us (1 Timothy 2:5)
            He’s preparing a place for us (John 14:2-4)
            There’s much of Revelation yet that has not occurred, in which Jesus plays a fairly pivotal role.

            There are others, but my point is, He’s not done. If I rake the leaves and say “It is finished!” that doesn’t mean I’m done all the yard work, let alone done working for the rest of my life. I think He just meant this particularly trying task (not that I’m comparing His life/death to raking leaves).

  • I am a Christian. Raised in independent baptist church, now southern baptist. Also attended a private Christian school in which the girls had to have from neck to ankle covered (try buying those clothes these day! lol); boys, no limits. I’m 36 now. As I got older, I learned about guys and what they think about constantly. At my premarriage counseling, the pastor had told me that I had been misunderstanding the Bible all this time. He said it was normal for him to look at girls, all of them, all of the time, clothed or no clothes. What crossed the being faithful part was only when he THOUGHT of doing something with them sexually.

    Needless to say I was extremely unhappy with his answer.

    Still, we got married. And for our wedding, my present to him was professional pics of me all dolled up with everything but clothes. I thought that would be enough for him, yet 3 years later before our divorce was even final his son came into this world thru one of his exes.

    I love your definition of Christian porn! I believe anything and everything is ok to approach and talk about experiencing as long as it ONLY involves the married couple. I don’t like porn, I don’t like it anywhere, and it is everywhere these days! But making my own solo movie or one with a hubby is a great idea, especially if there has been a problem with an addicition in the past.

    • I’m so glad you still have a healthy attitude towards your God given sexuality after having been burned like that by a spouse. So many can’t get past it and become cynical.

      Thank you for sharing, and I’m glad you approve of the definition I gave.

    • As someone raised in a southern baptist church who attended an Independent Baptist (a-la Bob Jones University) school I know exactly what you mean, except that the boys in my school did have limits (no clothes with logos, no denim, no shorts, shirts must have a collar, and our hair could not touch either our collar or our ears). I am super surprised that the pastor would have said that in pre-maritial counseling. The only message I got re: sex when I was growing up was this :

      “It is naughty, gross, and sinful, and that is why it should be saved for marriage. All sex is sinful in any context, even within marriage, but that when you are married God turns a blind eye so long as you are making babies.”

      Also, sexual sin was given a special status among other sins, making it more sinful than drug addiction and stealing (and possibly murder). Fornicators, adulterers, and divorced people were all going straight to hell unless they repented.

      nice huh? Its no surprise that I carried a very warped view of sex into adulthood, one that I am still working on overcoming. I am in a nearly sexless marriage (less than once a month) and I struggle to fight the feeling that somehow God is punishing me for my years of promiscuity before I got married. Or that God just doesn’t care about my sex life.

      • Careful with this, far too often we attribute too much to God that He doesn’t directly cause, and too little that He does.

        Do I think your years of promiscuity are harming your marriage today? Undoubtedly. Do I think God is punishing you? No. Do I think God tells us not to have sex outside of marriage because sex is a powerful thing and should only be used in the right context or you will get hurt? Definitely. It is not God, but your own choices prior that are punishing you.

        I think God cares a lot about your sex life, but God is often constrained by human choice. The problem with giving us freewill is that, well, He has to let us have freewill. And sometimes that means the freedom to deprive and otherwise hurt our spouse.

        Continue to pray, continue to be the best husband you can. We cannot change others, only ourselves.

        • I get it now … all the sexual happiness between a married couple that I read about on Christian marriage blogs is reserved for people who saved themselves for marriage. Those of us who have some sort of sexual sin in our past will just have to be happy with what we can get, if any, because we blew our chance.

          • Only in the same way that we all have to be happy with what we get because we blow our chance at the perfectly life every hour of every day by sinning.

            God sets out in the Bible what to do to have a perfect life and thus to be perfectly happy. But, to date, there has not been a person (Jesus excepted) that has been able to do it. As such, yes, we are doomed to a less than perfect life, and that includes less than perfect marriages. Does that mean we still can’t have a “good” life? By no means. It just means it’s going to take more work, effort, patience and help from God, which He will give.

            You can still have a good marriage. I have a wonderful marriage, but if you read some of my prior posts and comments, you’d know I wasn’t celibate before marriage either, I also struggled with a porn addiction and it took me 16 years to be free of it. I only had sex with my current wife, but before we were married, but even that has caused issues.

            But we are working to get past them, to accept forgiveness and to lead godly lives from this point forward. That is all we can do, and God promises that if we follow His commandments, we will become new people, changed and that means our lives are changed as well, for the better.

            There are 2 rules for salvation: believe in God and accept that Jesus died for your salvation. All the rest is to help you have a happier life, to bring heaven here on earth. Follow them, and you will taste heaven before you die. Not in full, but in part.

            I hope that clarifies my viewpoint. You are not doomed to a “lower level” marriage because of your past, though it does mean you may have some more work ahead of you. Just because your sins are forgiven, doesn’t mean the results will not still be felt.

          • imnotgoingtotell, I thought I would add something that may help you, it may not.

            God isn’t punishing you. Any sex before marriage, even sinless sex, makes things harder in your marriage.

            My husband is my second husband and having had a sexual history means there has been issues and complications because of it. If I believed it was because God was punishing me, I’d have to believe it was because my first husband cheated on me and walked away from our marriage, and that God must punish people for the sins of others.

            I definitely don’t believe that.

            Even though God doesn’t punish us for the sins of others, we do live in a broken world where the world itself makes us pay for the sins of others. Whether it be sexual abuse, sexual abandonment, our spouse cheating, whatever. Even if we did nothing sinful to cause the situation, we still pay the price. for example, I have come across far too many wonderful Godly women (and I’m sure there are ment who are in the same situation, I just don’t usually talk sex with men), who are suffering and even dying because their husband’s cheated on them through no fault of their own. They were dedicated wives, never refused, always submitted, always loved. Yet their husbands still cheated on them, and their husbands brought home a serious (and sometimes eventually will be fatal) STD from their mistresses. Same with rape victims who catch STDs and even worse when the victim is a young child.

            God isn’t punishing them. But just as He gave them free will, He also gave the cheaters/abusers free will and that sadly is the price we sometimes pay for other’s free will.

            It is not punishment. It is merely the consequences of living in a broken world. It is painful, especially when we are suffering greatly, but we can overcome it with God’s help.

  • Awww, yes, I believe he should take the risk and ask his wife to help him… I believe he should be respectful and humble, of course, when he does and willing to work with what she’s comfortable with. If he demands or manipulates her into doing what he wants, then it will not be healthy for them or their marriage. I don’t get the impression he would do that, and I’m pleased he commented!

    • Hopefully he comes back to read the comments.

    • Lisa, which commenter are you are referring to?

      • She’s talking about you “I’m not going to tell”. I posted your comment on Facebook asking for feedback from other wives, and she responded to that post.

        • Thank you Jay for asking about it on facebook, and thank you Lisa for your response.

          Lisa, you are right, I would never demand or manipulate anything, I just don’t feel empowered to even ask her. The last time we discussed my feelings about our sex life and how I wanted her to act like she was more interested, she gave me the silent treatment for a day. Later she apologized, but told me that the reason for the silent treatment was that I made her feel de-valued. I have not brought up the topic since. Unfortunately I don’t see where there is anything I can do to make this any better … any request I make she can immediately dismiss by pulling out her “you are a recovering porn addict” trump card. (for perspective, my porn addiction recovery process began in early 2006)

          So I am just having to wait for God to act, and His stunning silence is beginning to make me feel like He doesn’t care. In my head I know that the Bible says He does care, but my heart is having a hard time believing it. If it sounds like I am complaining, I am sorry, I just need somewhere to express my feelings. God forgive me.

  • If there was erotica written about a married couple but the names were left blank so who ever was reading it could fill in the names of themselves and their spouse, would that fit your definition of “Christian Porn”?

  • I appreciate the suggestion but I find it difficult to find a real application for this. I actually discussed this with some of my male (and Christian) friends who are fairly open about discussing topics such as sex and we concluded, unanimously, that it takes very little to get the male libido stoked. So if one is going to take masturbation off of the table as an appropriate outlet for those ignited feelings, we all agreed that this exercise would be more frustrating and irritating than helpful. In essence it is pornography with your wife as the star…that’s the only difference. But the effect is the same….it stokes your libido and your desire to a level that you desperately want an expression of, and release of that desire. I realize that the underlying thought is that it begins to create a desire for, and anticipation for your spouse with whom you hope to soon be reunited but the reality is….if any one of us could make it just three days looking at nude pictures of our wives and not masturbating, well that would be a modern day miracle. And I can’t imagine that we’re the outliers…..so I wonder if this might be something that you were able to somehow handle in your relationship well, but isn’t necessarily a good idea for the masses to attempt.

    • I see what your saying, and I’ll admit, when I was masturbating, it controlled me a lot more than I controlled it. 3 days without an orgasm would be been beyond my control, for a long time a single day with an orgasm would have been difficult, and sometimes a 12 hours span without one was too much. This is not the way to live. This is not “sexual freedom”, this slavery.

      But, when I gave it up masturbating (which wasn’t easy, by any means), I found that I gained a lot of self-control in that area as well. I can do 3 days without orgasm easily now. 12 days while I was out of the country was difficult, but nowhere near impossible. I’ll admit, much past that and I start having serious issues still, but I think it’s less about the orgasm and more about the connection with my wife.

      Now, perhaps I have a lower drive than you and your friends, who knows. It’s hard to gauge these things, especially when one only has the experience of one lover for life. Personally, I’d prefer sex every day, but I don’t NEED it that often. I don’t think I NEED an orgasm in any interval. What I need is a connection to my spouse for our relationship to be strong.

      For me, that’s why the pictures/stories help. It’s the connection that is the #1 thing, and it’s particularly the sharing that’s important. It’s not about the picture, it’s that my wife was willing to do it. Honestly, I look at the smile on her face more than anything else. That is the sexiest part, her attitude.

      I hope that clarifies. Perhaps I’m different than the rest of the population. Maybe we can get some others to offer their perspectives.

      • I hear what you’re saying but there is a distinction to be made. You’re response was that you don’t need masturbation once you got control over that area of your life. I too went through a period where twice a day was not in the lease bit unusual. It also wasn’t fueled by fantasies or images for me either….I discovered masturbation long before i linked it to sexual relations with someone else so for the longest time, it was just about the physical pleasure and stress relief and wasn’t tied to my relationship with anyone or sexual thoughts.

        But being able to go for long periods of time without an orgasm is one thing. Only getting sex once or twice a month kind of helps one build up a tolerance for building horniness with no outlet.

        But to resist masturbating when not intentionally stimulating the libido….and to resist it while simultaneously stimulating it are two different things and it just surprises me that many men would be able to do the latter. The former is a matter of self control and putting appropriate boundaries in place to prevent you from making the task harder than it has to already be. The latter is tempting fate to me.

        It’s like trying to control overeating. Hunger is a natural drive. Eating in and of itself isn’t bad and is part of God’s design for us. In fact, it’s actually necessary to sustaining life (sex isn’t….though one could make the argument that is is necessary for making life happier and more meaningful….but one will not die from not having sex) But eating out of the context in which we were designed to do it is wrong and harmful to us. So if I am trying to eat healthfully, and I know my appetite is large, it’s easier to do if I ensure that I don’t keep extra food in the house, I keep myself and My mind occupied in other endeavors so that I can’t spend time thinking about that piece of cheesecake I’d like to eat….and the caramel and whipped cream and chocolate I want to put on top of it…..(I digress). But to set a box of Twinkies on my desk while I am working and say to myself, “You can’t eat these, you can only use them to remind you of how good food can be in its proper context. Think about them, how good they taste, how sweet they are on your tongue, how satisfying it is to get that sugar rush as that golden cake dissolves in your mouth…..BUT DON’T EAT THEM!!!!” It’s just setting one up to fail by eating the Twinkies.

        To me…..that’s what “christian porn”, at least as it has been discussed so far, is doing here…..it’s stoking an appetite that you have no moral method of feeding and therefore setting oneself up to fail.

        But then….maybe I just have really low self control.

  • Phonenixguy78- I agree with you. As a former addict of porn, this would only stoke my libido and not in a good way. If I was away for 12 days, writing a suggestive letter or two is one thing. But to write an erotic letter about us, with naked pictures of my wife right there, whoa, probably not a good idea. (maybe I am just weak….)
    I have pics of my wife, cool, I have written suggestive letters, great. But one must be careful if their is great distance as it could bring back feelings from previous addictions. Just my thoughts….

  • Ok, so u went 12 days without sex and it drove you crazy. Now think about people who are not married. How r they gonna deal with it? And to make it worst, they can’t even read/watch the “you know what” to ease the desire. So what r they supposed to do? Just lower your standards and marry someone as early as possible? Wouldn’t this uneased desire affect your judgement on marriage?

    • I wasn’t born married, I spent 20 years of my life single, and yeah, it’s difficult, but I would say, the sexual urges before being married were nothing compared to afterwards. Before having a spouse, someone your that connected to on so many levels, any activity is a shadow of what it can be. So, I don’t think we’re comparing apples to apples here. That said, I understand what you’re saying.

      I would suggest 2 books:
      One is Eden Derailed which I wrote a review on. It’s a great discussion on sexuality and how it has to be handled, both in and outside of marriage.

      The second is Every Young Man’s Battle, which I haven’t read yet, but I’ve heard many people speak very highly of it, and I know it has practical advise for how to deal with issues like this.

      I hope that helps.

    • k that is why the bible says don’t awake sexual desire until the right time.

      Before I met my first husband, I had no desire for sex at all. It was only after I realised he was the man I was going to marry did I “awaken” and that was hard to deal with, but until we actually started having sex after we got married, did it become truly hard to go without. I even went against medical orders several times to have sex because I couldn’t wait the few weeks until the doctor okayed it again.

      It’s why premarital sex is so damaging. Until you start having sex, the desire is just not the same. It can be there, but nowhere near as strong.

      And having had my first marriage end and being alone for six years, knowing what sex is and how awesome it is, and being a high drive person who wanted it just about every day when married, imagine how hard it is to be suddenly single for 6 years.

      Yet not once did I desire porn, only even desired masturbation 2-3 times and even then realised how stupid and pointless and unfulfilling that was and had zero desire to have sex with anyone until my relationship with the man who became my second husband got serious.

      Our engagement was difficult – having been married, having spent 7 years having near daily sex, followed by a 6 year drought, it was a constant fight not to constantly think about sex and want to give into the urge. but you deal with it. a person can live without sex. it’s hard, but lots of things are hard in life

      I wonder what you mean by “lowering your standards”. I think it really depends on what standards you are talking about. It’s something I’ve told girl friends a number of times. That some of them very much should lower their standards!

      They think some guy who looks like Channum Tatum (or whatever is supposed to the hottest guy around these days), who earns at least a few hundred thousand a year, who will do half or all the housework, who will constantly give them expensive gifts, who owns a mansion, will give them a ferrari, will suddenly fall into their lap.

      So they hold out for this imaginary Mr Perfect until all of a sudden they realise they are in their 40s, they’re too old to have kids and all the decent guys are married.

      The only “standard” that should matter is does the woman you are looking at have a heart for God? It doesn’t matter if she weighs a tonne, has no hair, has pimples, is disabled, is unable to work etc. All that matters is she truly following God?

      If that is your only standard, then you should not lower that standard a millimetre. But any other standard (looks, money, job, future career, etc) you should be willing to drop those standards altogether.

      So never drop your standards about a potential partner’s walk with God, but every other “standard” you should be willing to lower in a heartbeat.

      I know it’s not easy. Finding myself in my late 20s, divorced after 8 years of marriage with a young child, I found churches to be full of bigots. I lost track of the vile names I was called by some men for even considering getting to know them with the potential of dating one day. They ignored that there are biblical reasons for divorce (which I met the lot of) and that here (and most of the western world) that no fault divorce means you can be divorced against your will and there is not a thing you can do about it.

      And that was the guys who called themselves serious christians. Most of the guys I met who called themselves “Christian” were anything but. Many had abandoned their wife and kids because they “didn’t feel in love anymore”, or expected sex within a few dates etc.

      Lowering your standards to date someone who is not genuinely following God is not an option, but any other standard really can be dropped.

      In the end, my dedication to God has led me to find a man who I love dearly. He may drive me nuts well and truly, he is far from perfect, but everyone in existence is far from perfect. What matters is he takes his faith seriously and has a heart for God.

      If your desires are truly a constant struggle, God will send someone your way. You just have to learn self control til that person comes.

  • I’m also a Christian, but also keep my mind open to the thoughts and beliefs of people from other faiths. I also read articles written by fellow Christians on social trends and issues and this one helped me learn more about eroticism and Christianity. Thanks so much!

    • I’m very glad it was helpful.
      I agree that other faiths may have items that are beneficial to learn. For me, I hold this one verse true in this regard:

      Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
      1 John 4:1

      Weigh everything against the Bible.

  • I agree albeit I wouldn’t call it porn. I have fantasies, these fantasies are ALWAYS about only my husband and are more about anticipating our union when we see each other. I believe that is using my mind correctly and according to the will of God. As for writing out fantasies for your spouse, why not? Song of Solomon is highly erotic and beautiful at the same time. Over mobile messaging services I praise my husband’s body to him and let him know I find him desirable, nothing wrong with that but it’s for his eyes only. :-)

  • I am very intrigued by your idea of writing erotica for your wife. I will have to think about doing that for mine, too!

    But I also think that more broadly, there is the possibility of even single Christians having an outlet of some kind, similar at least in purpose to the porn secular people use.

    I think the real problem with porn is that it’s made by “porn people.” What if all the members of your church just sincerely shared their sexuality? (Only using this as an example…DON’T ask them!)

    I know that certain conservative voices will say this is dangerous or inherently sinful, but consider that we are also natural beings, and our bodies have been engineered with certain needs.

    My view is that it’s cruel and unrealistic to expect single adults to go completely without any sexual expression or release.

    • I’m sorry, I disagree most strongly. I guess I’m one of those “certain conservative voices”. Sexuality is meant to be shared with your spouse, no one else. That’s what the entire post was about.

      Now, I think sharing about our sexuality with other married couples in order to help them and for healing is good. But not for titillation. That would fall under the category of sexual immorality.

      As for it being cruel and unrealistic to expect single adults to go without sexual release. I’d argue that it would be cruel to say it’s OK for them to engage in sexual activities outside the protective bounds of marriage, that it would do them more harm than good, and anything like sharing stories with them would merely lead to them increasing any frustration and desire, rather than alleviating it.

  • Is there space here for the views no religious person?
    Will try to be honest yet polite.

    I show a documentary last night on the upraise of “christian pop” in the US. That included christian violent martial arts (“jesus never gave up” team), christian heavy metal music bands, christian super heroes, christian motorbike gangs… and finally christian porn.
    (yes, Jay, I must admit, I was expecting some taste pics and ended up on this website!)

    But now I know what it is and more importantly, I understand why christians need to debate on this.
    It was too easy for me to think you guys are plain nuts.., but following this very interesting thread I must say I was so wrong. Nuts doesn’t mean you are lost in translation.

    You have decided on certain rules (The Bible, Jesus etc) and you try your best to fit them into this “complex” world. Not an easy task… You try to be coherent and that is hard and very brave!

    Nevertheless I see perplexed, how after 2000 years you are still try to adapt your foundation rules to the constantly changing context. To have incredibly intelligent debates like this one on whether is acceptable to write your wife an erotic story based on a template, or having professional erotic pics of your wife as long as they are taken by a female photographer… it just puzzles me.

    While I understand that society needs to agree upon certain basics to live in harmony… I would never dare to give them a spiritual dimension!

    I believe we are already enlightened beings… Our essence is divine and your God is within you.

    • Yes, there is space, so long as you understand the community is religious and are respectful of that.

      So, I believe most Christians would argue with your base statement, that we decided on certain rules. From our perspective and belief, we did not decide on the rules. They are set out by God, who is an entity, which exists outside of space-time. As such, we believe the principles behind these rules to be timeless and true, however, the implementation of said rules must be adapted for us since we are constrained to corporeal existence. Now, the Bible gives us some 4000 years (give or take) of God telling people directly how to apply those rules to their time. What we are trying to do, 2000 years later, is, based on how we see those rules applied through the millennia, is to continue to apply those rules in a coherent and consistent manner, because we honestly believe that they are for the betterment of our own existence.

      Because we believe in a holistic life (the spiritual affects the physical, emotional, etc., and visa-versa), every question is spiritual, but even without that spiritual context, the same questions remain, and the same answers come up.
      Why don’t we watch porn? Well, you could answer purely spiritually and say God doesn’t want you to, or to make it a little more practical, that we believe watching porn is the equivalent of bring another person into your sexual relationship which is only supposed to be with your spouse. We could say it’s a sin, but there are underlying reasons behind it. We don’t believe God made arbitrary rules. We believe sex is best experienced between two people who are mated for life, with no other sexual experience, and the statistics I see tend to say the same. Thus, we push for abstinence prior to marriage, and we push for fidelity in marriage, including porn, including people seeing you naked in a sexual context, including erotic writing, because they can affect the brain in a negative way and impact your marriage. We push for this sexual purity outside of marriage in order to make marriages better, so that people can have the best sex ever inside of marriage.

      But, since our belief is holistic, that is a spiritual thing as well. We believe that if you have a healthier marriage, you will have a healthier relationship with God as well, because it’s easier to focus on God when you have a stable relationship with your spouse. Just as finances are a spiritual thing, because it’s easier to focus on God when you aren’t worrying about your debt. And as well, we believe God wants us to be successful and happy (not in a prosperity gospel way, but in a “God want’s what’s best for you” way, because He cares for us). So, something as mundane as paying taxes or taking out the garbage, or doing chores becomes spiritual.

      I hope that answers some of your questions. I’m more than willing to answer more if you have them, I just don’t want it to turn into a “does God exist” debate. Not that I’d shy from such a debate, but this is not the place for it. My focus here is to help Christians (and non-Christians if possible) have the best sex within marriage, and I think your questions, so far, go towards that goal.

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